Face-to-face with Florida's Pastor Terry Jones
By Tanvir Khan
Orange , CA
I pulled into Starbuck's Coffee Shop on Main Street in the city of Orange near Children's Hospital Of Orange County (CHOC) Friday January 21, 2011 around 10:45 AM to check my emails and run off to my next client meeting. There, sitting across from my table, was Pastor Terry Jones who received worldwide publicity because of his intent to burn copies of the Holy Qur’an. The whole world watched his "Burn A Qur’an Day" threat!
I couldn't miss this rare opportunity to dialog with Pastor Jones. I, as other Muslims around the world watched and read in disbelief about his act of sacrilege! However, my intent was very clear to pursue this dialog with respect. My goal was to understand Pastor Jones logic for his "Burn A Qur’an Day" and attempt to prod him to think differently.
Pastor Jones's background is that he originally was a furniture salesman, moved to Germany for about 20 years as a part of his religious ministry, was expelled from Germany for some tax and physical abuse allegations, has returned to the US for the last about four years with a ministry of about 50 people, has never read the Qur’an , does not interact with people who have read the Qur’an, does not interact with Muslims, believes that ALL religions except Christianity are "of the devil."
In our discussion, his initial claim to me was that Muslims are terrorists, hate the US, want to implement Sharia Law in the US and are against the US Constitution. I replied that I am a Muslim, I am not a terrorist, I love the US, I do not preach implementing Sharia Law in the US and I follow the US Constitution with great admiration!
Pastor Jones thinks for a while and then responds that he didn't mean all Muslims. So I asked him, what percent of US Muslims in his opinion fall under his definition. After much wrangling, he suggests 5%. I responded that there will always be a small percentage of followers of any religion whom he, Pastor Jones, will not be able to accept, and maybe even a small percentage of other Christians whom he will not be able to accept! Pastor Jones smiled at that comment. I added that one cannot make a sweeping generalization for an entire community when he has a disagreement with just a 5%. So I suggested to him that in his future sermons, maybe he should take a less confrontational stance and state that the Muslims he dislikes are the 5% instead of claiming dislike for ALL Muslims and Islam like he has done in the past.
I then asked him how he came to the conclusion that Islam is "of the devil?" He stated that he has heard that the Qur’an asks Muslims to kill non-Muslims, including Christians. I asked him two questions: Has he personally read the portion of the Qur’an which states that and has he understood the context of the statement? Has he personally read the Bible where it preaches its followers to instigate violence against others? His answer to the first question was "No" and the answer to the second question was "Yes, but you have to read the Bible in context". "Exactly how I feel," I replied. You have to understand the context. I suggested to him that he should read the Qur’an and read the passages of his interest in context.
My next subject was, "Pastor Jones, would you burn a book which repeatedly praises Mary, praises Jesus, speaks of Jesus' miraculous virgin birth, and preaches belief in the God of Abraham?" His reply was, "Of course not!" So I said what if I told you that's what the Qur’an repeatedly speaks about? I could not believe that Pastor Jones didn't know that! He himself was shocked at hearing this about the Qur’an! We spoke about the Qur’an for a while. I mentioned the Qur’an using the word "believers" and not just the word "Muslims". I mentioned about the Qur’an speaking about John the Baptist and the important place he has in Islam. Pastor Jones was surprised to hear all this about the Qur’an. Finally, I suggested to him that maybe he should read the Qur’an, the book which speaks so highly of Jesus!
Pastor Jones brought up the subject of the blasphemy laws in Pakistan. He described how outrageous he felt those laws were against Christians. Pastor Jones spoke of the Christians who were held in Pakistani prisons because of this law. I told Pastor Jones about my association with COPAA where we recently had a meeting with a Pakistan Christian leader, Bishop Samuel Azariah on the same subject. I told Pastor Jones that even Muslims from Pakistan feel that the law needs revision. I also informed Pastor Jones that the blasphemy laws in Pakistan were not just targeting local Christians, but that the law was targeting followers of all religions, be they Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhist, etc.
We had been talking for about an hour. I wanted to end the conversation with something that Pastor Jones would remember after we parted. I quoted him the Qur’an that if you believe in the God of Moses, and you believe in the God of Jesus, and you believe in the last day and you do righteous deeds, you have nothing to fear on the last day. Pastor Jones was really surprised to hear that. He challenged me about this, asked whether it really was in the Qur’an and was having difficulty believing it. I replied that not once, but the Qur’an mentions this several times! I think that this was where the biggest positive impact occurred.
Pastor Jones actually said that we should talk more. We actually discussed him inviting me to come to talk to his congregation and I inviting him to come and talk to people I socialize with. We exchanged phone numbers, email addresses, etc. and hope to talk more. Pastor Jones is a regular visitor to Southern California where he comes to record messages to Arab Christians.
My personal conclusion: When we as Muslims speak with Christians and Jews and share with them what our Qur’an says, it amazes them what Islam stands for and what it is!
Email: auryk@msn.com
